Bipolar I With Psychosis Inside a 30-Year Marriage — Part Two: Mania, Depression

0:01 All right, hello, my name is Scott Robertson. This is my podcast and I have a special privilege of talking to Sherry today and she is a self aware, wonderful lady that has bipolar one in psychosis. She's agreed to talk to us to give you guys the perspective of somebody that has this challenge in their life and I really appreciate her becoming on here. Sherry, would you give me just a little word on kind of who you are? Not a whole lot of details. You're married? For how long and and when did you first know about your challenge of bipolar?

0:42 OK, my name is Sherry Hall. Of course. I'm working on my PhD at Capella University. My husband. I've been married for 33 years this coming July, and when it comes to bipolar, I've always had it as long as I can remember. I was able to manage it on my own without medication until we lost our home that we had designed in 1997. But did you want me to go ahead and answer the first question? Sure. OK basically I had a nervous breakdown and this was my first attempted suicide and this is my first admission into a mental health hospital where they where they actually diagnosed me as bipolar.

1:26 And how long ago was that? That was in 1997. OK, all right. And and your husband, he's obviously an amazing person and we very much appreciate him. How did he take it? He didn't when I was initially diagnosed, he didn't. He didn't seem to take it any kind of way. He just, he didn't have much to say. He just, he really just stood by my side and took the blows as they came. I understand, I understand. Listen, I I can't find the questions again. I'll have to edit some of the stuff out, but one thing that I think all of us as partners would love to understand is do you feel yourself either going into mania or going to depression?

2:22 Is there kind of a, a warning signs that you yourself feel or is it kind of just hit you all at once? Kind of like is there a warning? Yeah. In other words, if you're going about your day and, and everything's good copacetic and then all of maybe something happens or you feel different or something that you can identify that says, uh oh, I may be going down this road of either depression or mania. Is there? Do you ever get those type of feelings that you know are coming? With me, there's little warning, it just happens with me. The worst part of mania for me was the feeling that I don't want to be in my own skin. Most people like the mania, but they like it because if they get so much done, well, not for me. I blow money like crazy.

3:07 I seek out comfort wherever I can find it. That means sexually and unfortunately, my husband is extremely quiet. In the beginning I didn't understand this because this was his way of coping. While he listened to me, he didn't express his feelings like most people do. So in our beginning I didn't understand and I thought it was his life love for me. In all reality it was his. The complete opposite. Please understand, everything I did, I told him and I tried to tell him why, and I've been completely without an honest with him through our entire marriage and I think that's one thing that's kept us together. It's, it's for everybody listening. The self-awareness of Sherry is over the top because my, my wife was not self aware.

3:57 She did, she told me she was manic depression, which 30 years ago that's what bipolar was called. But she didn't actively try to #1 apologize or say they were sorry or say, hey, something's going on and we need to work this together. And you know, when you're in mania, I understand. You get at least the reading that I've done and maybe your perspective. Do you get really self-centered at that point when you're in mania? No, I, I don't really ever experience self-centered. You know, I, I've always, even when I'm sick, even when I'm having an episode, I'm still able to to think about his needs, even though I'm still going to do what it is I want to do.

4:48 I'm still considering. In fact, most of the time when I become manic, I become well, I do things that don't make sense. I mean, I do things to try to help our money situation, when in all actuality, I'm actually hurting our situation. You know, I don't know. It's I'm sorry, I forgot the. Question no, no, no, you're you're absolutely look for everybody that's listening and for me under to to understand is that we do understand when you go into mania, sometimes it's not necessarily all you don't remember or a lot of people don't remember things. Now, let me ask you this another question and that is, is there anything that your partner can do better to help you when you're feel like you're slipping away? What what's the best way to be supportive from a partner's angle to support you when you start and feeling these things coming on?

5:55 Well one of the biggest things he does, it does not help is he tries to. When I get upset and start being all crazy, he tries to hold me down. And that's not good because he doesn't want me going anywhere. He doesn't want me doing anything stupid, you know? So in the past he would try to hold me down, but now he's learned to accept what's happening and let let it blow over. And then we we talk about it because it it takes a little while for for the mania to subside. And I guess you know that. Of course. Absolutely. Sure. It's the when you say hold you down, you mean he tries. I've heard it in other areas called controlling. You felt like he was trying to control you. Would that be a good analogy?

6:47 Oh yeah, I mean, he was trying to physically hold me down, not hurt me or in anything in any way. He was just trying to keep me from leaving the house or keep me from hurting myself or keep me from hurting him or anybody else. He would. I mean, I've, I've never hurt anyone else in my mania. I've always hurt myself. I got you. OK. If, what would you, with your experience, what would you suggest is the best way when somebody's slipping into mania? Because for the listeners out there, it's very well known, documented that once somebody is in mania, the last thing you can do is try to control them.

7:28 They don't want it. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, Sherry, anything that I'm saying, but they don't want anybody controlling. And if you try to, for instance, say, look, give me all the credit cards and the checkbook right now, they'll run because they don't need any. Am I wrong in what I'm saying, Sherry? Oh, you're absolutely correct. You're absolutely. Correct, right. And so the best way I've heard of what's called Gray rocking, but I have you ever heard of that term, Sherry? You told me about it the other day. Yeah, it's, it's it's as they're accusing, as they're going into their episode, the more you can and all of this, Sherry, correct me if I'm wrong, all the more you try to control them or anything else, the worse they get. All you can do is let go.

8:15 Well, you, you step back. I mean, don't necessarily let go. You still listen and you're still there. You're still present in the moment, but you give them space and when they come back to when they know what's going on and everything's kind of subsided, then you can talk about it and really, you know, hash what has happened and what needs to happen. I wanted to say something to Sherry right now. Is that when you said that right now where after the episode has ended and you go back with your husband and you all talk about it, That's huge, positive, good stuff because mine never did. She never came back. So the show's not about me right now. I'm just trying to say for you, that's why you're self aware and that's why you've been together.

9:03 None of the many things I'm sure is it. You all can talk about it later. And you, you know, I don't want to get into what you're saying to your husband because that's private. Now, when you're in an episode, the do you ever let out your irritability, let's say, or your episode outside of the house? Or is it mainly just with him? In the beginning it was with everybody. I was aggressive, I was angry. I was, I did things like for instance, I have a well, I had a young child at the time and he was like 6 or 7 and I was having him clean the kitchen table and he didn't clean the kitchen enough.

9:53 And I took him by his neck and put his face down against the table. And I told him I said, does that look clean? And I will never forget doing that. And I don't, I didn't want to do it, but I did it and I'll never forget that. And I've regretted it my whole life. But I just it's stupid things like that that happened that and you know, in a lot of my main manic times, I would like expressed that I wanted to leave or I wanted him to leave when all actually I did not want him to leave. I did not want him to give up on me. I wanted him to stay by my side. But in the moment you say things that you don't, you don't mean you don't really want to happen.

10:37 But a lot of times what happens is the people that hear those things, the partners that hear those things, they're like, OK, you want it to be over and it's over. And really, if they'd have just give it a little time and let let everything calm down and let the partner come back, everything would have been fine if they'd just given the chance to listen, relax and believe and know that their love is worth it through the end. Well, I wanted to tell you something real quick #1 all of us, everybody listening and you and me both, everybody's done stuff we don't like. I mean, so that that's a non issue.

11:18 I mean, it's not a non issue. It's just all of us are human and so we're not perfect. Well, maybe my wife and but that's a joke. So, but the, the, the huge difference and everybody here listening huge difference once again is for self-awareness of the ability to talk about it after the fact and when they're in an episode and I can't for me personally, I was thrown out probably 1015 * / 10 years, 10 or 15 times and I didn't know all of this stuff. So I was in a normal, I was in a normal relationship mode with somebody who's bipolar and they aren't the same.

12:00 Correct me again if I'm wrong, Sherry, but she would throw me out of the house and I'd go OK, well, crap. I she hates me now for some reason. OK, I'll make my arrangements. And then she come back in the room later and say, please don't leave. But she would never explain why. She never said she was sorry. We never talked about it later, even though I would try. And she would say that's the past, let's forget about it. That's where you're different, Sherry. So congratulations. Thank you so much. Oh, after all all the research I've done, kiddo. Now, is there a question on there that you saw, the ones I gave you that you would really like to answer? Let me go over that real quick. But there there is something I do want to discuss with. You please.

12:45 I know, I know that, and we are kind of going to bring up your story if that's all right. Of course. I know the the biggest issue with you, the reason you left and the reason you gave up on your wife was because she was unfaithful. And that's something that you as a man couldn't get past. And I understand that you're, you're going to be, you're not going to be happy with me when you hear what I'm fixing to say. I was unfaithful to my husband. I can't count the number of times. And it, it's not something that I really thought about when I did it. It's and, and you know how you talked about having the, that she would give you the most loving look, looks and she would share herself with you and she would be with you and just the looks and the things that she would do for you would make you love her so much more and so much more than just anybody. You know, the regular person doesn't normally have that, that type of deepness, that type of love and expression in the relationship.

13:54 Do you know what I'm talking about? Yes. Well, I, I have that, I do that with him especially, but I just felt like I wasn't good enough for him. Even when I was well, when I wasn't well, I didn't believe I was good enough for him. And I would, I would try to leave and he wouldn't let me. And he would never give up on me. Never. I mean, every time I did something, I'd come home and say, you know what? I just did, and we'd sit down and we'd cry about it and we'd talk about it and it'd be over. That's the difference, Sherry.

14:38 That's the whole difference right there. You came back and we're self aware and you said I did something really stupid and I'm really sorry and you all cried about it together and then you went on Mine never did that. It was always my fault and. If she had come back and she had asked you, she had told you what she did and she had asked for forgiveness. She just, if she had come back and said, you know, this person from the gym really means a lot to me, but I love you and you're my spouse and we're going to make this work. I mean, if she'd come back and said something like that, would y'all still be together? Yes, no question. Done. Game over. Yeah.

15:20 Sorry, That's OK. I just, I really thought it was important to touch that base with you because I do not know how in our life, I don't know how he's been able to prefer. Forgive me. I to this day still don't forgive myself the last time. Go ahead. I was just going to say something that you said hit home with me is that maybe she didn't feel like she needed. She was good enough for me, even though she was controlling and all that other stuff. I would look at her over and over again over the years and say, honey, you look beautiful or any number of times I would say stuff like that.

16:05 And her response was always the same. I'm glad you think so. Yeah. Which bleeds into what you just said. She didn't like I'm. Telling you that she didn't feel like she was good enough. Right, I know. So excuse me. Yes, but again, I keep on hammering on the same thing with you, Sherry. You're self aware. That makes all the difference in the world. Had she come back to me? Had she that thing with the the gym that I talked to you about the Motional Affair for three months? Had she gone into the Motional Affair and then after a month or so said, you know what, honey, I'm really sorry this is destroying you emotionally and the last thing I want to do is hurt you. And I don't know why I did it, but it felt really good. And I'm sorry.

16:59 I would not be having this conversation with you. I would still be happily married period, but it was always my fault. I was stupid. Nothing's going on with the guy at the gym even though we're at 5:00 in the morning with nobody else around for three months. And that she was affectionate with him in front of me at the club, you know, putting hands on him and all. So I'm just saying that's a huge difference. Mine didn't have that. And listeners, if you have one that doesn't apologize or doesn't do what she's doing with her husband, run. Sorry. I just. There aren't more. I mean, I've interviewed many, many people and I find that if there aren't any or it's more good times and good feelings and things to override the bad, it's not worth it.

17:51 Don't stay. I mean, I really, I really believe that in my heart if, if there, if there aren't more good, you can say more good times than bad. I would not stay well, Cher. One thing I want to add here though is that I've seen this in a lot of places too and it was it certainly with mine 780% of the time or more with her was fine. We enjoyed each other, we had fun together, we did stuff and I mean, it was a great time. The problem was the 10 to 20% and I had a lot of people come back to me and say the same thing, partners that the majority of the time it was great, but when it was bad, it wasn't bad. It was catastrophic.

18:35 And so, you know, there's certainly, that's why I would say it's a spectrum with everybody. But with mine, she was fun. But it's when she broke my trust with that affair and then refused to acknowledge it or anything else that just furthered the break of trust. We were done then. So. But your research is showing that. Say that again. It's just showing that nine times out of 10, if people if if there aren't more good things in the marriage than bad, a lot of times people won't feel like it's worth their time to stay. Right or the catastrophic or a lot of people as you well know, you know a lot of people, the infidelity thing is A1 and done a lot of people ask.

19:25 That and I understand that I would be, that I would, you know, I was even told him. I said, you know, if you want to go out and have a relationship behind my back, that's fine. I understand. And I have tried to take my life so many times because I've hurt him. I've slipped my wrists, I've slipped my arm, I've slipped my hand. I've drank antifreeze. Oh, my sweetheart. I cannot tell you the things that I have done and. I'm so glad you failed. I have failed many times and I've been in mental hospital. Can I get you to hold on for one second? Sure.